Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 15:38:49 EDT From: Jim Sims <sims@scra.org> I seem to recall seeing this before: How can I force all the application panes to exist when my application starts? We have lots of ugly code that depends on being able to call get-frame-pane and get the panes back.... The short answer is, you can't. In CLIM 2.0, panes don't exist until you use them in the layou.