CFV: comp.std.lisp moderated and comp.org.lisp-users

[keunen@montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Vincent Keunen)]

Thought the readers of this list would be interested by this:

>From: votes@bagend.atl.ga.us (Jan Isley)
>Subject: CFV: comp.std.lisp moderated and comp.org.lisp-users
>To: common-lisp@ai.sri.com
>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:45:16 -0500 (EST)
>Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu (usenet votes alias)
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>Subject: CFV: comp.std.lisp moderated and comp.org.lisp-users
>Date: 16 Nov 1993 14:20:19 -0500
>Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
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>Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu (Jan Isley)
>
>                      FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
>
>This is the first of two Call For Votes (CFV) regarding the proposed
>creation of two new newsgroups.  Please read the proposals before voting.
>Detailed instructions for voting are given below.
>
>Unmoderated group: comp.org.lisp-users
>Moderated group:   comp.std.lisp (moderated)
>
>Newsgroups lines:
>comp.org.lisp-users     Association of Lisp Users related discussions.
>comp.std.lisp           User group (ALU) supported standards. (Moderated)
>
>moderator:              Brad Miller <miller@cs.rochester.edu>
>submission address:     lisp-standards@cs.rochester.edu
>
>Votes must be received by 23:59:59 GMT, 7 December 1993.
>
>This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  All questions
>regarding voting and procedure or reports of problems should be mailed
>to Jan Isley <jan@bagend.atl.ga.us>.
>
>Votes should be mailed to usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu.
>
>All questions regarding the proposed new groups should be mailed to
>the proposer, Brad Miller <miller@cs.rochester.edu>.
>
>All questions regarding the comp.org.lisp-users to ALU mailing list
>gateway to Charles Fry <chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>.
>
>The CFV will be sent to the following mailing lists:
>
>allegro-cl@ucbvax.berkeley.edu     alu-board@ai.sri.com
>common-lisp@ai.sri.com             slug@ai.sri.com
>
>CHARTERS
>
>comp.org.lisp-users
>-------------------
>Discussion of general topics relevant to the Association of Lisp Users
>(ALU) (including Lisp Vendors), in particular centered on membership
>issues, future conferences, publications, and Lisp advocacy issues.
>Overlap with comp.lang.lisp.*, and other groups this message is cross-
>posted to should be minimal, as this is NOT intended to be a technical,
>but an organizational group. The ALU mailing list will be bidirectionally
>gatewayed into this newsgroup.
>
>Participation will not be limited to current ALU members.
>
>comp.std.lisp (moderated)
>-------------------------
>This moderated group is intended to foster focused discussion on
>user-group supported standards that are beyond the scope of more
>formal standards e.g.  that are not addressed in the (almost final)
>ANSI Common Lisp. It will be moderated for appropriateness to the
>group and timeliness, and not for technical content; the moderator
>will periodically post the status of all ALU standard proposals,
>open and close discussions on new standards, and call for specific
>technical experts to take charge of each standard (for surveying
>existing practice, proposing, incorporating changes, and wording
>the final version).  The moderator will be reponsible for recording
>all finalized standards for the ALU, assigning identifiers and sub-
>mitting copies to all interested vendors. The initial intent is to
>give feedback to the several LISP vendors for inter-vendor compatible
>support of various features that have developed too late to be included
>in the work of ANSI committee X3J13, such as (but not limited to)
>DEFSYSTEM, Foreign Function Interface, and Multiprocessing.
>
>Participation will not be limited to current ALU members.
>
>Moderator:           Brad Miller <miller@cs.rochester.edu>
>Submission address:  lisp-standards@cs.rochester.edu
>
>RATIONALE
>
>comp.org.lisp-users
>-------------------
>Although SLUG (Symbolics Lisp Users Group) evolved into the Association
>of Lisp Users, the mailing list for SLUG is still used for discussions
>related to issues regarding Symbolics products.  As such, it is not the
>appropriate vehicle for discussions relevant for the entire membership
>of ALU. One of the primary purposes behind the ALU organization is to
>promote the use of, and education about LISP-like languages. At the ALU
>(open) board meeting at LUV '93, we discussed this and felt that a
>newsgroup in the comp.org hierarchy could best help us achieve our goals
>of disseminating information about promoting lisp to interested parties,
>have a single place for discussing how the ALU can help parties
>interested in lisp, and have a useful place for discussion on future
>conferences and a possible periodical take place. Furthermore the ALU
>does NOT restrict itself to only common-lisp, but all dialects of lisp
>like languages.
>
>comp.std.lisp
>-------------
>At LUV-93 it was clear from the common lisp vendors that they would not
>be investing substantial amounts of effort in attempting to make their
>products compatible with each-other without some firm guidance and
>commitment from their users. We felt that the ALU, by providing a forum
>to define such "de facto" standards, could help the user community
>better coordinate on cohesive needs, and thus provide a "single voice"
>to the vendors for important (compatibility related) standards issues.
>By opening up the discussion to the public via this newsgroup, we hope
>to better represent real-world users, not just the "academic" few who
>usually participate in standards adventures. At that time, I volunteered
>to coordinate such "de facto" (better called "de dicto") standards
>creation for the ALU, though commentary would be open to all interested
>parties.  comp.std.lisp would be the place to hold specific focused
>discussion on these evolving standards, which would ultimately evolve
>into some sort of request to the vendor community to support specific
>features (in addition to, or in place of overlapping features they
>already support).
>
>While the initial discussion on comp.std.lisp will concentrate on
>common-lisp, it is not, in principle, so limited; it is intended to be a
>good place for users of any lisp dialect to communicate and attempt to
>agree on non-formal standards that can be used as feedback from users to
>vendors and other implementation groups. However, where better forums for 
>a particular dialect or branch of lisp exists, the user will be strongly
>encouraged by the moderator to use that forum instead of comp.std.lisp 
>(since presumably that will be where the audience for the idea is).
>
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>-=-=- Do Not Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-
>
>lisp groups Ballot    [lisp-01]
>
>Give your real name here:
>
>[Your Vote]  Group
>------------------
>[         ]  comp.org.lisp-users
>[         ]  comp.std.lisp
>
>-=-=- Do Not Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-
>
>


Vincent

--
Vincent Keunen
R&D, Software Engineer
keunen@montefiore.ulg.ac.be
tel: +32 41 407282
fax: +32 41 481170