Re: SUN vs Lisp machine hardware differences?

[James Larus <larus%paris.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>]

     I would think the most serious one is address space.  Here's why we have
     think we have to use lisp machines from Symbolics.  Perhaps some sun
     users can enlighten me on how they (the Sun machines, not the users) compa
    re:

     First, RAM:

      CYC, the system I'm working on, needs at least 4 mw to even run, and 6
      to be moderately comfortable.  I was dissapointed that under 7.1 I
      couldn't bring a machine up to even 8 mw (high memory above 7.5 was
      ignored.)  I think this limitation is going to become a real problem
      for us in the next year or so.

1 Symbolics MW ~ 4 MB since both Sun Common Lisps use 32 tagged pointers.

I don't have a complete Sun price list, but my Sun 4 price list (i.e., for
very fast memory) has a 32 MB (~ 8 MW) ECC memory board for $12,060 (
the UCB price).  Add 33% for the standard retail price.

      
      Can some SUN experts tell me what the maximum addressible quantity of
      RAM is for the sun machines?  Please don't use "bytes" -- the pointer is
      a more reasonable measure of comparison.

The Sun 4 can have up to 128 MB (32 MW).  The new Sun 3/60 can have up
to 24 MB (6 MW) on your desk.

     Virtual address space:

      The (Symbolics) lisp machine has a 28-bit address space.  Right now we
      use about 50mw of address space, and figure that we can scale up without
      problems via larger disks when we need to.   Needless to say, an
      Exploder with its 25-bit address space is out of the question.
      
      What are the real sizes of the various sun address spaces?  Does the
      68000 have the same architectural problems as the vax which preclude
      anything but a small address space?

Sun supports up to a 256 MB (64 MW) address space.  They are talking
about supporting larger address spaces.

     Oh yea, one more thing.  If you've ever had to write network code
     you'll appreciate 1> The quality of Symbolics' code (don't laugh --
     their competitors are even worse!) and 2> the fact that you don't have
     to write with foreign-function interfaces and worry about unboxing
     packets.

Having tried to use the "quality" Symbolics network code on the same
network as other manufacture's machines, I can only assume that you
are kidding.

     David

     PS: Why does Symbolics sell memory in "bytes."?  They call a 2mw board a
         "8mby" one.  This just makes their prices appear outrageously high,
         since they're not counting the tag or ecc bits...

In case you haven't notice, most everybody talks about bytes (8 bits)
these days.  Symbolics should wake up and join the 1970's.  (Just kidding.)