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'386-based delivery

Many thanks to all respondents to my original query.
For anybody who has an interest, here is a transcript of all
messages that I received:

From:	IN%"ai.gooch@mcc.COM"  "William D. Gooch" 10-FEB-1990 00:38:06.09
To:	PAYER%atc.bendix.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Subj:	386-based Lisp delivery platform experience anyone?

We have had a very good experience using Symbolics' CLOE software to
move lisp code to MSDOS 386 machines (UNIX is targetable with CLOE
also).  We now have a beta copy of CLIM for CLOE which we've been too
busy to try out yet.

I'de be happy to try to answer any specific questions you have about our
experience using CLOE.  One "interim compromise" you may have to make
pertains to CLOS performance.  Depending on what you are doing, current
CLOS implementations may prove too slow for you.  Fortunately, (new)
flavors are supported for CLOE.

From:	IN%"metal@ztivax.siemens.COM"  "Oliver Gajek" 12-FEB-1990 07:10:57.89
Subj:	'386-based delivery

you didn't mention whether you want your 386 machine to run Unix
or DOS.  If it's DOS, you'llpretty much have to use CLOE.  Some people
have used CLOE under DOS and they like it.  I've used CLOE 1.1 under
Unix and wasn't so impressed.  The compilers from ALlegro and Lucid
were both much better and produced much faster code.  I can't
speak for the latest version of CLOE, but I doubt that much
has improved in the Unix version.  Both Lucid and Allegro
will have their window toolkits (Lucid WTK / Allegro Common Windows)
running on the '386 under X at some time in the future, but I don't
know when.  If you find out I would very much like to know.  

We're currently looking at proceeding like this:
- develop on the symbolics 
- make the stuff portable on a sun, because lucid and allegro deliver their
new and improved versions much earlier on suns than on anything else
- deliver on 386/486 machines under Unix once we have Lucid or Allegro 4 
available there.

This works OK except for the windowing software.  Hopefully CLIM will
take care of that, but who knows how long that's gonna take to come out.

If you get any other interesting responses I would like to know.


Oliver Gajek
Internet: metal@ztivax.siemens.com
uucp:     mcsun!unido!ztivax!metal
Phone:    49/89/636-41493
Fax:      49/89/636-47140
Mail:     DI AP 323
          Siemens AG
          Otto-Hahn-Ring 6
          D-8000 Munich 83
          West Germany


From:	IN%"Mark@alderaan.scrc.symbolics.COM"  "Mark Graffam" 13-FEB-1990 00:26:31.43
To:	PAYER%atc.bendix.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Subj:	386-based Lisp delivery platform experience anyone?

My name is Mark Graffam. I am the Marketing Manager for Symbolics'
software only delivery products. Symbolics offers a development 
environment that allows a user to develop applications on a
Symbolics system and then seamlessly migrate it to a 386 based
PC, using UNIX or MS-DOS. The product is called CLOE (Comon Lisp
Operating Environment). In June Symbolics will be distributing
Release 3 of CLOE, which will implement CLIM, CLOS, and ephemeral
garbage collection. CLOE has a virtual memory system.

Paul F. Payer
Allied-Signal ATC
Columbia, MD