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Re: RE: MCL Application Framework

> Given the amount of resources being invested in this effort, I think that a
> goal of the MCL application framework should be a to "PROVIDE A SUPERSET OF
> BEDROCK FOR LISP" to immediately support portability to other languages and
> other machines.
Supporting portability to other machines is an important feature that will facilitate
all kinds of things. As far as I can tell from the message I'm responding to,
BEDROCK provides only a solution between Mac and Windows. Until everybody else
forgets about Unix, we shouldn't either. Let's consider the unix/X/motif &open Look
platforms too. 

CLIM is now supported on many machines. Support for it on the Mac is
comming from ILA. CLIM was designed with CLOS as an integral part by people intimately 
familiar with Lisp-based window systems [which have a much longer history than C-based 
window  systems]. Without knowing more details on BEDROCK, my guess is that CLIM is closer 
to the right thing for CL environments than BEDROCK.

 From those of you less familiar with CLIM, it is not just a window-system but includes
the functionality associated with window-managers. There's lots of input processing
capability/translation including support for "Application Frames". CLIM also takes pains
to make it possible to implement the look-and-feel of the native window system without
changing the source code of your program. It is extensible via "Gadgets", a term borrowed 
 from X windows. 

CLIM 1 exists on many machines now, with CLIM 2 to be released on many machines this 
summer. The CLIM 2.0 "spec" was completed in May. At 364 pages, it is really a complete 
reference manual.

The Common Lisp community [other than Apple] is strongly backing CLIM. Not just Symbolics 
and DEC, but even Franz and Lucid are on the same side of the fence.