CLIM mail archive
Re: updating-output CLIM 2.0
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:26 EDT
From: Jeff Morrill <jmorrill@BBN.COM>
[In the next round of CLIM documentation, it would be nice to see an example
of something like this!]
Indeed, JGA and I plan to do this.
I'm not sure the jury is in on updating-output. You need it most when the
display is NOT CHEAP to generate. Suppose for my 100,000 point graph I want
to change the units from "Fortnights" to "Furlongs". Walking the output
history is not expensive as long as there is a caching-point that encapsulates
the entire 100,000 points of data, so that clim doesn't have to inspect each point.
Although updating-output works OK for relatively simple displays, when you
don't really need it, I have had terrible luck with complicated displays.
In my opinion it is too slow and too buggy. Nevertheless, I find myself using
it (though not for graphs). In defense of the implementors, it is a hard thing
to do for the general case.
Without trying to defend any of us implementors, it really is hard to
get UPDATING-OUTPUT to work really well, really fast. UPDATING-OUTPUT
is presently worse than it should be in both respects, but I just don't
know how we are ever going to get it to be as good as we would all like
it to be.
I think everyone feels that there is "excess junk" in clim, but nobody seems
to agree about which parts are the junk. Each feature makes some constituency
happy. If the specification is not going to get smaller, then I would like
to see CLIM broken into libraries. For example, all those color symbols
(+white+ etc) should probably be put into a file that can be loaded if
you need it, but if you don't need it your lisp image will be that much
This is all true. The folks at Franz Inc have been thinking about this.
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