Re: MAILING AND NETWORKING

[Mabry Tyson <TYSON@WARBUCKS.AI.SRI.COM>]

[Administrative note:  The original message was being processed by our
mailer just as I was writing out one of the mail address files and so a
significant portion of SLUG readers didn't see the original.  So, rather
than sending it again, I'm including its body in a reply.
	Mabry Tyson
	SLUG-Request@AI.SRI.COM]


This is one of those messages that I think normally should have been
sent to the software maintenance people at Symbolics, assuming the
sender has a software maintenance contract.  As the sender is from a
foreign country and there may be problems in contacting Symbolics USA
for software support, I will go ahead and answer the question to the
best of my ability.  My personal opinion is that I don't want to see the
SLUG mailing list used to answer questions that could be answered by
software support without first trying them.


    Date: Tue, 10 Oct 89 11:16:35+0900
    From: wgcho%csd.kaist.ac.kr@RELAY.CS.NET (WonGyu Cho)


    We ae having some problem in mailing and networking with other hosts
    in our Ethernet. Our Machine is Symbolics 3650 with Genera 7.2, IP-TCP 67.5,
    and Mailer 17.0 running on it. The problems are::
      1) We can send mails to our local Ethernet hosts, but we can't receive 
	 mail from them.
      2) We can send mails to our local Ethernet hosts, but we can't send to
	 other non-local hosts.
      3) We can't access any other hosts which requires routing.

There are lots of things that could go wrong.  Let me guess at some
possible causes.  I suspect you didn't install IP-TCP properly.  I have
felt this is one of the poorly documented parts of the Symbolics operating
system.  (In general the documentation is quite good.)

Please excuse me if my responses don't match your problems.  As English
isn't your native language, it is difficult for me to understand what you
meant by what you said.

Problem 1.  I understand this to mean that you can send mail from a Symbolics
to, say, a Sun on your local network but the Sun can't get mail through
to the Symbolics.  Is that Sun in your local namespace?  Is the
Symbolics registered in your Internet domain (eg, KAIST.AC.KR) so that
the Sun can determine what its network address is?  (If you can telnet
from the Sun to the Symbolics, then the Symbolics is probably, but not
definitely, registered.  If I knew if you could telnet from the Sun to
the Symbolics, it would help me understand your problems.)

Problem 2.  I understand this to mean that you can not send mail to any
host that isn't on your local network.  The problem could be that your
Symbolics doesn't know (and can't find out) the address of the non-local
host or it may know the address but can't make a connection to it (or
both).  Can you send mail to hosts that aren't on your local network but
are in your local namespace?  (It is completely proper to have a host in
your local namespace that isn't on your local network.  You probably
need to specify its INTERNET DOMAIN NAME in its namespace description.
By having the non-local host in your local namespace, you would assure
the Symbolics would know its address.)  Most likely, problem 3 needs to
be fixed before fixing problem 2.

Problem 3.  I understand this to mean that you can not Telnet, access
files, nor send mail to non-local hosts.  Can those hosts get to the
Symbolics?  (But beware that you need to allow them access via the
SECURE-SUBNETS property on your local site (:EDIT NAMESPACE OBJECT SITE
<your site name>))   Perhaps you don't have your default gateway specified
properly.  There should be a host object (your IP gateway to the rest of
the world) in your local namespace that has the service GATEWAY on
medium IP using protocol INTERNET-GATEWAY.  One of these should have
been set up when you called (TCP::INITIALIZE-INTERNET-NAMESPACE).

The Symbolics must be able to determine the Internet addresses of all
those hosts that you wish to communicate (use telnet, mail, or file
service) with.  This may happen any of three ways.  If you aren't going
to communicate with only a few hosts, you may just put them all in a
namespace (usually your local namespace) that is available to your
Symbolics.  If you want to communicate with a larger set and for some
reason can not get access to a domain server, you can install the NIC
host tables (via TCP:INSTALL-NIC-HOST-TABLE).  The preferred way is to
have a domain server available to the Symbolics.  See the instructions
in the TCP/IP documentation.

(Actually, if all you want is to have file and telnet service to a few hosts
but to have mail service with the entire internet, then you may be able to
get away with simply having your mail sent via a particular non-Symbolics
host.  That could be done by having that host in your local namespace with
the STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL service on it.  It should be the only host in
your local namespace that has that service.  (Well, you can have more than
one of them.))

    The following is the Services we have added to the namespace of out Symbolics

	    Services: CHAOS-STATUS CHAOS-SIMPLE CHAOS-STATUS
	    Services: CONFIGURATION CHAOS CONFIGURATION
	    Services: CONFIGURATION TCP CONFIGURATION
	    Services: DOMAIN CHAOS DOMAIN
	    Services: DOMAIN TCP DOMAIN
	    Services: FILE TCP TCP-FTP
	    Services: FILE TCP NFILE
	    Services: FILE CHAOS NFILE
	    Services: FILE UDP TFTP
	    Services: FILE CHAOS QFILE
	    Services: HARDCOPY CHAOS PRINTER-QUEUE
	    Services: HARDCOPY CHAOS LGP
	    Services: HARDCOPY-STATUS CHAOS PRINTER-QUEUE
	    Services: LISPM-FINGER CHAOS LISPM-FINGER
	    Services: LISPM-FINGER UDP LISPM-FINGER
	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER CHAOS CHAOS-MAIL
	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER TCP SMTP
	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER CHAOS SMTP
	    Services: NAMESPACE CHAOS NAMESPACE
	    Services: NAMESPACE-TIMESTAMP CHAOS-SIMPLE NAMESPACE-TIMESTAMP
	    Services: PRINTER-CONTROL CHAOS PRINTER-QUEUE
	    Services: PRINTER-QUEUE-CONTROL CHAOS PRINTER-QUEUE
	    Services: SEND TCP SMTP
	    Services: SEND CHAOS SEND
	    Services: SEND TCP SEND
	    Services: SEND CHAOS CONVERSE
	    Services: SHOW-USERS CHAOS NAME
	    Services: SHOW-USERS TCP ASCII-NAME
	    Services: SHOW-USERS UDP ASCII-NAME
	    Services: STORE-AND-FOWARD-MAIL TCP SMTP
	    Services: STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL CHAOS CHAOS-MAIL
You should only have the STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL services on lisp machines that
are running the Mailer.  If you only have the Mailer code loaded and aren't
running the Mailer, you should not have this service on the host.  At our
site, we have a number of people that receive mail on a host that has the
Mailer running but we don't have the STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL service on that
host.  The reason is that we want outgoing mail to be delivered from all of
our lisp machines to another host that is our gateway and has a more reliable
mailer.
	    Services: TIME UDP TIME-SIMPLE-MSB
	    Services: UPTIME CHAOS-SIMPLE UPTIME-SIMPLE
	
    The following is an example namespace of another host of our Ethernet which 
    we want to communicate with (ex. a UNIX Machine)

There should be no CHAOS mediums in the services for this host!!  This could
be the cause of a number of problems for you.  So delete the services marked
with a "*" below (some are marked for the reason that I suspect that you
do not have that service implemented on the Unix machine).

*	    Services: CONFIGURATION TCP CONFIGURATION
	    Services: DOMAIN TCP DOMAIN
*	    Services: DOMAIN CHAOS DOMAIN
	    Services: FILE TCP TCP-FTP
*	    Services: LISPM-FINGER UDP LISPM-FINGER
	    Services: LOGIN TCP TELNET
	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER TCP SMTP
*	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER CHAOS CHAOS-MAIL
*	    Services: MAIL-TO-USER CHAOS SMTP
	    Services: SEND TCP SMTP
*	    Services: SEND TCP SEND
	    Services: SHOW-USERS TCP ASCII-NAME
*	    Services: SHOW-USERS UDP ASCII-NAME
	    Services: STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL TCP SMTP
*	    Services: STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL CHAOS CHAOS-MAIL
*	    Services: STORE-AND-FORWARD-MAIL CHAOS SMTP
*	    Services: TIME UDP TIME-SIMPLE-MSB
	
    We have no problems in doing other network operations as ftp, show-users, or telnet.
    Any kind of comments would be helpful.
    Thanks in advance.

    Wongyu Cho from KAIST(Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    E-Mail Address::
	    wgcho@csd.kaist.ac.kr
	    wgcho%csd.kaist.ac.kr@relay.cs.net
	    wgcho%csd.kaist.ac.kr@uunet.UU.NET

    UUNET address is preferred due to the communication cost.

I hope my suggestions and comments are clear enough.  This is a
confusing part of the Symbolics system especially as it involves
interacting with other hosts.  If you have problems with them, please
give me some more information and maybe I can explain my answers better.
Good luck!

	Mabry Tyson
	Tyson@AI.SRI.COM